by
Kathryn M. Peters
Dear Friends of In Light Times, Greetings, dear friends. It is the month of thanksgiving yet again, and the last Thanksgiving of this millennium. What more perfect a time than in this season of blessings and joy to celebrate the contributions of Dr. Raymond Moody, the father of NDE research. The near-death experience has become a venerable part of our spiritual vernacular and so it is with great pride that I offer you this most insightful conversation with Dr. Moody. A true visionary is he who bravely opened the physical eyes of the entire world to the spiritual light beyond. Upon meeting Dr. Raymond A. Moody, Jr., I could not
help but be struck by his gentle, unassuming presence. But not for one instant was I able
to forget that due to this one man’s consistent courage, curiosity and conviction,
today humanity’s very perception of life after life has been transformed forever.
Once upon a time the vast majority truly believed that from the grave we would rise no
more. Yet the voluminous, arduous research of Dr. Raymond Moody revolutionized the
faultiness of that unenlightened consciousness, posthaste. Due to Dr. Moody’s
penchant for meticulous scientific investigation, the world now possesses options to the
dread and fear of the ‘Big Sleep.’ Through the findings of Dr. Moody’s
research humankind has been able to take a deep sigh of relief and begin to genuinely
enjoy life once again without the overshadowing presence of the debilitating necrophobia
which has stolen from generations their rightful experience of authentic living. For the
true nature of life can be savored only when the true nature of death is understood. Of course, Dr. Raymond Moody is not the only doctor, scientist, or clinician to have probed the inner realities of the other side, yet as the first person audacious enough to publish a empirically conducted accounting of the near-death experiences of thousands, in my opinion, we owe Dr. Moody an immense debt of gratitude. As we look back upon this century, perhaps over the last thousand years, I would venture to say that Dr. Raymond A. Moody, Jr., holds a place of incomparable honor among those outstanding women and men who have helped to alter and shape the course of human destiny. Re-markably, he has managed to do all this with panache, and one marvelous sense of humor. Bravo, and thank you, Dr. Moody! A Conversation
With...
kp: Good afternoon Dr. Moody, it is such a pleasure to meet you, sir. I have enjoyed all your books, and I must tell you that your first book, Life After Life was an absolute God-send for me. I had personally experienced two out-of-body encounters after near-fatal exper-iences and had no frame of reference, no way of integrating these experiences into a sane perspective until I read, Life After Life. After studying your work I was more than able to fully incorporate these "supernatural" happening in a practical framework of viable spirituality. I am confident that your work has touched the lives of millions of others in very much the same way. rm: Why, thank you. kp: Dr. Moody, I’ve just finished your latest book, The Last Laugh. I liked it very much, and I feel the true philosopher in you came out more than ever in this book. Now, in the opening paragraph of the first chap-ter you say, and I quote, "The near-death experience has become an accepted reality of collective con-sciousness." Please tell me how it makes you feel to know that your life’s work, more than any other person, has made that so? rm: I honestly think of it as very much a collective effort. The first person I ever knew who had one of these experiences was Dr. George Ritchie who I met at the University of Virginia when I was an undergraduate in 1965. Then in 1969 I received my doctorate in philosophy and was teaching at East Carolina University where several of my students had had this experience. When I entered medical school in 1972 I had a couple professors who were really enthused with the subject matter and encouraged me immensely. Then when, Life After Life was published, people like Ken Ring and Bruce Grayson began to see similar experiences among their patients. So you can see why I see it as a collective effort. kp: What exactly led you to the study of the paranormal, Dr. Moody? rm: At the University of Virginia. I was in a philosophy honors program where my interest was in con-sciousness, in what we call the mind/body problem and philosophy. My professor, John Marshall, mentioned Dr. George Ritchie in one of his lectures. This was immediately intriguing to me. To think that someone had come that close to death and yet remained conscious was inherently a fascinating fact. Then in early 1970 I was discussing with one of my students Plato’s Dialogue with Theta. I was teaching the logic side of it but the ostensible theme is the issue of life after death. So one of my students came up to me one day and said how he would love to talk about life after death in my class. As I questioned him as to why he would want to talk about that he explained that the previous year he had been pronounced dead after a bad accident. He went on to tell me he’d had an experience that had totally changed his life, but that he had absolutely no one with whom to talk about it. He told me identically what I had heard from George Ritchie four years before.
kp: In your research, Dr. Moody, you have pinpointed certain steps as imperative in order to authenticate a near-death experience. I want to go through these one by one. The first step is leaving the body and floating somewhere above it. In your opinion, Dr. Moody, what part of us is it that leaves the body? rm: You know, Kathryn, I am not trying to be evasive, but I honestly do not have an answer to that. From what people tell us there is a definite change of perspective. Even people who have had these experi-ences stumble for words if asked that. People have said it was their mind, or their consciousness, their soul or spirit. People use different words yet they all seem to be getting to the same idea that in effect you have an entirely different perspective and you can see things from a point of view that is outside your body. kp: The second step of a NDE is moving into a narrow passageway or the tunnel. Dr. Moody, what do you feel the tunnel represents? Is it simply a mode of transportation, or perhaps a system of demarcation between dimensions? rm: Well, all of this is complicated by the fact that the most common thing people say about the near-death experience is that the words they use are not literal. Everyone I know whom I feel confident has had a really transcendental experience say they just can’t find words to describe it. So when they talk about the tunnel, for example, literal words fail. They attempt to give the closest rendition in words they can in order to give people who have not had the experience a sense of it. kp: The third step is being drawn up to and into the light…the light, representing love or the presence of God, as the individual perceives it. What has your research revealed the light to represent for someone who was agnostic or atheist at the time of their near-death experience? And, Dr. Moody, have you found the overall experience was markedly different for those who found themselves facing it without the benefit of any previous religious or spiritual foundation? rm: You know, that is a very hard question to answer. But as one friend of mine put it, fundamentalist minister as he was, "I was surprised to learn that denomination just doesn’t count." kp: So ultimately, the love surrounds this experience no matter what we believed about religion or God before it happened. rm: Yes, that’s right. After the experience there is much more of a tendency for people to say, even if they had a specific tradition they grew up in, they no longer think denomination is important. They are left feeling all the great faiths have one central truth. kp: The life review is experienced by everyone who journeys through the near-death experience. Dr. Moody, do you feel this is the most important aspect of the experience, and why? rm: That is the one I have always focused on as the one most interesting. The life review seems to bring about the most profound life change by reviewing all the things you’ve done and empathically reliving the actions of your life through the perspective of the people with whom you have interacted. In terms of the startling after affects, that does seem to be one of the most powerful. A warm, loving presence of light is often in attendance at the life review, and this too inspires people…bringing them to a new place in their lives. kp: Is this profound life change always a positive one, Dr. Moody? rm: Dr. Ritchie said the following words to me in 1974, "Raymond, this experience makes your humanity even more of a burden in a way." What he meant by that is even after you have this profound vision of love it is really very difficult, on a day to day basis, to put into practice. kp: Do you feel the warm presence of love you spoke of is in reality an aspect of the person having the experience… like a higher self or higher consciousness? rm: Obviously that is one of the things you think about as a pro-spect but I have always been careful in this field to not answer, or try to give an opinion or even have an opinion on things that are beyond absolute knowing at this point. I like to stick to the things that we can make adequate generalizations and sound judgments about. kp: The last step I’d like to address is the choice to return. Why do you think, Dr. Moody, that some are given a choice and others are simply sent back on an imperative? rm: Many people tell me they have no idea why they were sent back. One moment they were blissful in this realm of light and the next thing they knew they were back on the operating table. There are those who were told specifically they had to return, that it was not their time to die. Incidentally, people are typically told they have to go back for they have things yet to accomplish and often they are not told what it is they must do. kp: My God, how frustrating…that could drive you crazy for the rest of your life! That’s kind of a cruel trick, don’t you think?
rm: Yes, or else it’s a good one in the sense that there is a point to your not knowing. But what I do find interesting is that of those who wanted to stay and yet chose to come back, they did so not for themselves but because they had kids to raise. kp: To what do you attribute the fact that at this point in history the near-death experience is a spiritual concept whose time has come? In other words, why now and why you? rm: In reality these experiences go back to antiquity. I was so intrigued by George Ritchie’s experience because I knew about it from ancient literature. When I was eighteen years old the University of Virginia had a terrific course on the ancient Greeks and this has essentially given me a reading list for the rest of my life. Plato, being one of my heroes…and think about this Kathryn…Plato’s works have been in print continually for the last twenty-three hundred years. Plato and Aristotle, truly as far as I can tell, were the greatest geniuses of history. Plato knew all about near-death experiences. I feel absolutely confident that he had out-of-body experi-ences. In ancient Greece, the near-death experiences were just as much a dinner table conversation as they are in the United States today. And in answer to your question, one factor is identifiable in the development of cardio-resuscitation technology. kp: Dr. Moody do you discern any spiritual agenda pushing the reality of this experience to the fore, or do you think it’s all just a result of medical breakthroughs? rm: People have always resonated to the spiritual pull of these near-death experiences. Plato was profoundly impressed by the major one he wrote of. They have always possessed a profound spiritual aspect. kp: What role or purpose do you feel the near-death experience has played in humanity’s collective spiritual unfoldment? rm: Mystics throughout history have had these experiences. Yet, I think with the growing democratization of them, this is something that didn’t take a man going to the mountain top to live in a cave twenty years in order to tell you these things. This is something that happened to Aunt Florine, or Uncle Hampert. Everybody now knows someone who has had such an experience. kp: But do you feel that it has had any kind of mass spiritual, elevating affect upon humanity at this time? rm: It has and that should be qualified by saying there have been other factors in this. I do think it has sunk into the general public that this happens. It has become part of the way we view the world. It has profoundly influenced our view of death. Further developments in this field are going to do the same. I believe we’ve just scratched the surface. kp: Dr. Moody, you’ve stated the near-death experience is not proof of life after death. Then please tell me what it is proof of and what would constitute such proof, in your opinion? rm: I think first of all that the word proof is a red herring in this. I taught classic and symbolic logic in the university and the fact is scientific method, rational pro-cedure and logic all must be put into place. I am not a worshipper of logic, but the way it works depends on premises and conclusions of literal assertions; statements that can be found either true or false by some method of determination. Therefore, when people, out of excitement, say, oh, this is scientific proof, or evidence of life after death, that simply misinforms the public and justifiably irritates people who know of logic and scientific method. So how could such a proof be possible? I don’t think it works that way. kp: Then, what do you think the near-death experience is proof of? rm: What I do feel very confident of is that it’s a remarkable fact in itself that a hefty proportion of the people who almost died or get pronounced dead with a cardiac arrest will come back and tell us these astonishing narratives. Now that to me is awesome in and of itself! kp: I do agree, yet it does not make logical sense to me that one would go through the phenomenon and wonder of a near-death experience and yet there would be nothing at all beyond it! rm: That could be…people also say when they go into this they’re not even in a spatial or temporal realm. Then the question, "is there anything after that?" becomes irrelevant because, at this point, they in affect find themselves in a non-temporal, non-spatial world. In fact, my good friend, Vi said to me, "Raymond, you could say my experience took one second or you could say it took ten thousand years. It wouldn’t make a bit of difference which way you said it." kp: Do you feel that not having had a near-death experience yourself has either helped or hindered your work in this field? rm: I would say absolutely not having had one has been a great benefit to me. I have been able to apply the kinds of reasoning I learned in logic, and use all the education I had to try to figure it out… as a person who has not had such an experience. This made it possible for me to write about the subject the way I have. I’m writing not from an inner, personal experience but rather from my best observation. kp: I sense in your new book, The Last Laugh a bit of frustration over the way in which the near-death experience, and the paranormal are being treated or perhaps the word is ‘exploited’ today. You refer to Betty Eadie and Dannion Brinkley (two of the most popular lecturers on the metaphysical circuit) as ND Entertainers. This comes across as less than complimentary. Is that the way you intend it, Dr. Moody? rm It’s not at all intended as un-complimentary. It is just a description of my impressions. kp: You compare Mr. Brinkley’s experiences to those of leading characters in history. You compare the fact that he was struck by lightning, he possesses an overtly charming personality, and he has developed a ‘super-natural settee’ likened to the saint’s sofas and holy men’s mats. With that understood, the question I pose is this: Do you think it possible that Dannion Brinkley, like those to whom you compare him, has been sent in order to assist in the dawning of a new spiritual age of understanding of death and the realms beyond? rm: Well, no, I do not think that of any one person more than I think that of all of us. I wouldn’t put anybody up on a pedestal like that. Everybody is here in their own capacity. I just don’t think in terms of gurus. kp: Without the need for putting anyone on a pedestal or worshipping gurus, is it not possible to consider, if we each come with our own capacity, those out there doing the work like Dannion, Betty and others who have undergone an NDE, are here to collectively push this new spirituality into the forefront as part of their divine task? rm: I think that is a wholly unanswer-able question. kp: Dr. Moody, if I handed you a magic wand giving you the power to alter public interest as well as scientific research regarding the paranormal, what changes would we witness as a result of your will? rm: I have a very definite answer to that. If I could wave a magic wand, I would help people by teaching them critical thinking. I think that would liberate people more than anything else. kp: How has your work with the near-death experience altered your view of God, or influenced your practice of spirituality? rm: I’m still searching but friends who have known me the longest say the primary thing they like about me is my sense of humor. I believe humor is intimately tied to spirituality. Did you know that the concept of an afterlife is intrinsically a comic notion by definition. Unfortunately, in our puritan society, comedy is a word which carries a flippant tone. Comedy just means ‘a mode of discourse that portrays a happy ending.’ It is contrasted by tragedy which ends in death. So, if you think of life after death as a mode of comic discourse, it’s one that even incorporates tragedy because it shows that even death has a happy ending. kp: Dr. Moody, your professional focus at this time is on the UNLV Bigelow Chair of Con-sciousness Studies. Please tell me why you decided to take this chair and what you aspire to accomplish in this position? rm: To me, this was a great opportunity to be of service. We are establishing a continuing program which will enable students to have a place where they can think about the paranormal, read about it and do studies of it from a completely rational perspective. kp: Las Vegas is a far cry from Alabama. How have you and your lovely wife, Cheryl, along with your baby boy, Carter, adjusted to life in the ‘Entertainment Capital of the World’? rm: It’s absolutely wonderful. I have actually been talking about my entertain-ment views of the paranormal since way back in the ‘70s. To me, it was a God-send being able to present these ideas in an academic context in the very city that is the entertainment capital. kp: So, it is quite symbolic that you are here in Las Vegas.
rm: Yes it is and because I was trained in analytic philosophy and also partly because that is just my temperament. I am not given to hyperbole. When I make an assessment it is usually after a lot of thinking. After living here for a year I can say absolutely that Las Vegas is the best city in the world. kp: Now, I understand that you have two older sons as well, Dr. Moody. What is the one gift above all others you want to make sure, as a father, you pass on to your children? rm: Oh, absolutely to be loving people. And it has worked absolutely with my older sons, Avery and Samuel, and I know it’s going to work with Carter, too! kp: How then do you actually teach them to be loving people? rm: I don’t think it’s a matter of sitting down with lessons. I think if you keep them in the right environment, hug them and show them love, it just flowers in them. kp: This has been such a interesting interview Dr. Moody, and my last question for you is, how would you like to be remembered by the world? rm: As a person who was a good father to my children and a funny guy who made a lot of people laugh. Of course I would like to be remembered for the work I’ve done; I hope it’s made an impact. When I make an extrapolation it is almost always correct. I’m really good at that. I’ve always had a good talent for seeing what’s coming. I say this without trying to brag. Based on the reactions that I’ve been getting from colleagues on the The Last Laugh I believe the model of research into the paranormal it suggests will make a major contribution. kp: Thank you, Dr. Moody, for your time. I look forward to reading your next book. § Doctor Moody maintains a website at http://www.lifeafterlife.com Click here to go to amazon.com to order "The Last Laugh" |
